- EO Charging supplies a turnkey service for car fleets, together with all of the {hardware}, software program and repair components of the electrification stack. President and Chief Business Officer John Walsh advised us that the software program and upkeep layers of the stack are the keys to charger reliability.
- Fleets usually overestimate the quantity of energy they’ll must hold their EVs charged. Detailed modeling within the early phases of a mission, together with good vitality administration, can assist a fleet keep away from the prices and delays concerned with upgrading a utility connection.
- Totally different fleets have completely different infrastructure wants. EO charging affords month-to-month cost plans primarily based on the variety of chargers, kilowatt-hours delivered, or miles traveled, so as to deal with completely different buyer wants.
Q&A with EO Charging’s John Walsh
How is offering charging infrastructure for EV fleets like working a website online or a cellular phone community? All of those worthy endeavors (amongst others) depend upon a stack, which is a hip manner of describing a system of interrelated {hardware} and software program merchandise that operate collectively.
Some layers of the stack could also be easy, and others could also be complicated. Some could also be seen as commodities, and others could depend upon extremely specialised proprietary expertise. Some could also be set-it-and-forget-it techniques which might be anticipated to work easily, and others could also be—for need of a greater time period—a ache within the neck.
In an rising subject akin to EV charging infrastructure, it could be onerous for potential clients to determine how the completely different layers of the stack match collectively, and which layers require particular consideration. So as to add to the confusion, the forged of characters is massive, and the relationships amongst them could be complicated—just like the record of dramatis personae in a Victorian novel. Some corporations specialise in one layer of the stack, and others supply a turnkey bundle, offering all of the services themselves and/or subcontracting with different corporations.
What’s the most effective course for a fleet operator to steer? Does it make sense to combine and match completely different corporations for various layers of the stack, or is it higher to contract with a turnkey supplier, maybe for a hard and fast month-to-month worth? For some solutions, Charged sat down with John Walsh, President and Chief Business Officer of EO Charging, who defined how the layers of the EV fleet charging infrastructure stack match collectively, and provided some ideas for patrons.
Charged: What sort of clients does EO Charging serve?
John Walsh: We do all depot charging, so our goal clients are transit authorities, faculty districts and fleets, akin to Amazon, FedEx, UPS, DHL. Additionally, the truck OEMs which might be beginning to come on-line now—Daimler, Bollinger, Workhorse—we’re concentrating on these as effectively.
The issue on this business is that everybody’s all concerning the cupboard and the {hardware}. That’s the most important problem with charging at present—everybody thinks, “Man, if I might simply get that wall field on the wall or get that charger within the floor, I’ve bought what I want.” And it’s solely the start.
Charged: You had been previously Chief Business Officer at Proterra, an organization that we’ve written about rather a lot. I for one thought it was a terrific firm, and I used to be shocked when issues turned pear-shaped. What occurred?
John Walsh: What occurred to Proterra by the lens of John Walsh could be very disappointing. I left the corporate over a yr in the past, slightly bit earlier than the storm hit, as a result of I noticed the ship sinking. We went public, we did a SPAC, we had a whole lot of capital that bought burned by very quick, and…simply mismanagement, I’d say, greater than something.
However don’t quit on Proterra. The corporate was offered in three items—battery techniques, chargers and buses—and there are three completely different homeowners now. Proterra had the most effective battery expertise on the planet, and it’s nonetheless the most effective battery expertise. There are a whole lot of corporations that may use their battery techniques and have a whole lot of success. I feel the Volvo Group [which bought Proterra’s battery business] will prosper by the expertise that was given delivery by Proterra.
Sorting by the stack
Charged: For fleets, there are a whole lot of items to the charging puzzle. You might have your personal proprietary software program, and also you supply a full turnkey bundle for fleets.
John Walsh: We do. It’s referred to as a stack, and it’s actually six easy factors.
The primary half is session, the place you sit down and perceive the utility, perceive the depot.
The second piece is your design and your set up—you dig up the bottom and you set the chargers in.
The third bullet is the {hardware}—we do enterprise with about six OEM {hardware} corporations. And to us, it’s a buyer’s selection. We’ll give them what we really feel like are some good options primarily based on the facility ranges that they want. Whenever you speak to EO Charging, you’re not speaking to ABB, Heliox or Siemens—you’re speaking to all of them as a result of we’re hardware-agnostic.
The fourth piece is the software program. And this is part of the stack that’s actually necessary that individuals overlook. The software program is your fourth bullet, then your fifth bullet is upkeep “Oh, wow. You imply it’s important to preserve the chargers?” Effectively, that you must preserve your automotive, proper? So, completely.
After which the final piece, and possibly an important piece we now have, is a technical operations heart [TOC]. When you’ve got a cellular phone, there’s a technical operations heart that’s resetting your telephone all day lengthy, and also you don’t even realize it. That’s what we’re in a position to do—we are able to see that charger within the floor.
We’ll do elements of the stack a la carte. The one factor we is not going to decouple is the software program and the upkeep. When you choose a software program supplier and a separate upkeep supplier, then it’s two completely different telephone calls. That’s what clients are annoyed with. One telephone name for that full stack—design it for me, put it within the floor, give me the {hardware}, preserve it for me for 10 years—that’s the answer they’re in search of, and that’s what we do.
One among our authentic buyers was an organization referred to as Amazon, and so they demanded 99% uptime. And that’s what we provide clients. You might ask Amazon, “Inform me about EO, and inform me about your uptime,” and so they’d say it’s 99.7. They may let you know that, not us—they’re a really demanding buyer.
“We’ll do elements of the stack a la carte. The one factor we is not going to decouple is the software program and the upkeep.”
Depot chargers are dependable, aren’t they?
Charged: Charger reliability is a scandal, and I strongly suspect that a whole lot of the issues are as a result of there may be half a dozen corporations and organizations concerned with a mission.
John Walsh: You’ve hit the nail on the pinnacle. We do accomplice with sure clients or sure corporations. For engineering, we would accomplice with somebody. I’ll accomplice on the high of the stack, however as soon as it’s within the floor, it’s all me. It’s my software program, it’s my upkeep, it’s my TOC, and that’s the important thing to reliability that everybody’s complaining about.
Charged: Now, I do know you don’t do public charging, you solely do fleet depot charging. I’m guessing the latter doesn’t have as many challenges with reliability. Am I proper?
John Walsh: No.It’s simply as dangerous. I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I used to be as soon as at an APTA [American Public Transportation Association] assembly—all transit companies—and I requested them, “Who has 90% reliability at your depots? Who has 80% reliability?” It was after I bought to 70% and 60% that individuals began elevating their arms. It’s not a quantity that we’re making up.
If we go to a buyer and so they say, “We’ve bought three completely different manufacturers of chargers on this large depot as a result of we purchased them at completely different instances, and we ended up shopping for ABB, Siemens and Heliox,” we are saying we don’t care. They could have to take a look at three screens. They’ve three completely different software program packages and three completely different upkeep techniques. With us, it’s all on one display. I feel that’s actually what our secret sauce is, and that’s the most important promoting level of our firm—the {hardware} is agnostic to the software program, and we’re in a position to see the whole lot in a single spot from an operations heart.
“I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I as soon as requested a bunch of transit companies about reliability at their depots, and it was solely after I bought to 70% and 60% that individuals began elevating their arms.”
For these about to affect
Charged: How about some handy-dandy ideas for fleet operators? What are among the issues that may go improper, and the way can they keep away from them?
John Walsh: The one you hear probably the most is “You want to pay money for your utility yesterday.” And to me, that’s a broad reply. What does that imply? Once I attain the utility, what do I ask them? There’s so many fleet operators, huge, huge corporations, that simply don’t know what to do.
What’s the distinction between a UPS facility and an Amazon facility? They’re in all probability 50 years aside. UPS, they’ve been round for an extended, very long time, so that they have buildings that they by no means thought they’d electrify. Then you might have Amazon—most of their buildings are model new, and they’re getting ready for electrification. So, the error I feel will get made is, when you take UPS for example, they’re going to say, “We bought 100 vans. We’ve got to cost all of them. We’ve bought one megawatt of energy coming into the constructing. We’d like 5.” And they’re going to instantly contact that utility, as a result of that’s what everybody tells them to do, and inform them, “I want 4 megawatts extra energy.” And that’s while you hear everyone busting out laughing at the back of the room.
Effectively, they don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they assume. We do a whole lot of modeling for patrons. “That is what number of automobiles we now have. That is the vitality storage on board, and that is how a lot energy we now have on the depot.” We mannequin for them the scale charger they want, however we additionally assist them handle the vitality as soon as it comes into the constructing. I ship it in two completely different instructions. I ship it to the ability conveyor belts, and I ship it to the chargers, however I’m not going to cost these EVs all day lengthy. I’m going to cost them at particular instances of night time at a sure energy stage.
Don’t over-capitalize the mission. Do your homework and take into consideration how a lot energy you really want into that facility. You’ll be able to work with the utility on that, but additionally work with corporations like EO that will help you determine that piece out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash—and I’m speaking tens of millions of {dollars}—to place energy right into a constructing that you simply’re by no means going to make use of. That’s in all probability the most important mistake I’ve seen in doing 200 deployments on the depot aspect.
If we hear a buyer say, “Effectively, we’re simply doing a pilot,” we are saying, “Okay, however the place do you go from there?” They are saying, “I’m going to do 10 buses, and I’m going to do 10 chargers, and let’s see the way it goes.” That’s actually not a good suggestion. What we’re doing a whole lot of proper now with clients that did that 10 years in the past, we’re ripping the whole lot out—rip and exchange. Now, the expertise’s modified, I’ll offer you that. However on the identical time, they actually didn’t do a correct job of setting themselves as much as scale.
There was a transit authority up in Canada that constructed a brand-new facility, 400 buses below one roof. They knew from the start they had been going to cost 400 buses, however they solely did 60 to start with. However the facility, the lanes had been arrange so they might simply add the chargers as they went alongside. All the things within the facility was able to go. Planning for scale is one thing that’s tremendous, tremendous necessary.
“Fleets don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they assume. Don’t over-capitalize the mission. Work with corporations like EO that will help you determine that out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash to place energy right into a constructing that you simply’re by no means going to make use of.”
Charged: I believe (I’ve a suspicious thoughts about these items) that 10 years in the past, a few of these fleets thought, “We bought a authorities grant, so we’ll do a pilot, and that’ll fulfill the greenies, after which we’ll return to enterprise as regular.”
John Walsh: That’s proper. I feel that’s precisely what they had been pondering. Is it political? It may be in some instances the place we now have to take care of a authorities mandate. What I like about Florida, there’s so many purchasers which might be going electrical that don’t need to. One of many first electrical fleets within the US was Star Metro, the transit authority in Tallahassee, and people buses function on Florida State’s campus. Now, these buses, 14 years in the past, they solely went 30 miles on a single cost. How did they handle that? They used en route charging. Effectively, at present, on an electrical bus, you’ll be able to go 250 miles. Now, their chargers are on the depot, like a daily fueling station. They replenish at night time, and so they run all day lengthy.
Cost your fleet for one month-to-month charge
Charged: You supply a whole turnkey service for a month-to-month cost. How does that work?
John Walsh: We’ll bundle our Stage 2 charger with the software program, the upkeep, the technical operations heart, and cost one month-to-month charge—it’s $59. That bundle is absolutely engaging to a whole lot of fleet clients.
We provide a month-to-month cost by charger, by kilowatt-hour, or by mile. A buyer can select their program, as a result of their wants fluctuate. Some clients have a whole lot of idle time. Some clients are placing a whole lot of miles on the market. Some are charging and discharging fairly a bit as effectively. I’ve DHL in New York Metropolis, and so they say, “We don’t want a whole lot of batteries on our vans, as a result of, in all the day, we would go 20 miles,” as a result of they’re caught in visitors in Manhattan. That’s completely different from anyone in Kansas that may be working a great distance. So, we need to give these choices to clients and allow them to select.
Charged: Are there some conditions the place a buyer assumes they’re going to want DC quick chargers, however they are able to get by with the Stage 2 and keep away from among the procurement bottlenecks?
John Walsh: Yeah, that’s precisely what occurs. We’ve got our personal charger referred to as the Genius Fleet, which is a Stage 2 charger, 19.2 kilowatts. We really feel prefer it suits with a whole lot of fleet clients as a result of they’re going to make use of a Rivian van or a Ford E-Transit that has roughly 100 kWh of storage on board. The scale of the charger is absolutely engaging—you don’t need to get right into a Stage 3, which could be very costly. And the neat factor concerning the Genius is we now have them in stock. There’s no ready on switchgear or charger {hardware}. If a buyer says, “I want 10 chargers,” we are able to ship them inside 24 hours. We’ve got them warehoused across the nation.
We make our personal Stage 2 charger in Europe, however the one we now have right here within the US is made for us by IoTecha. After which on the DC charger aspect, ZEROVA, Kempower, ABB, a number of of those producers, while you see our label on it, it’s important to stroll across the again of the charger to see that it’s anyone else’s. We try this simply from a branding standpoint, however once more, we’re agnostic to the {hardware}. So long as it’s OCPP 1.6-compliant and we get good service from them, we’re comfortable.
The same old questions on developments
Charged: Individuals are predicting a wave of consolidation within the EVSE {hardware} market. There’s a whole lot of corporations, and a few them not too long ago went belly-up: Tritium, Freewire.
John Walsh: I feel it’s a pattern. There’s completely going to be consolidation. With fleet, faculty bus and transit, that {hardware} has to satisfy Purchase America requirements. That implies that that charger must be inbuilt america, and it has to have 70% US content material. That shrinks down the variety of corporations. Not too long ago, you in all probability noticed that Siemens purchased out Heliox. We predict that’s factor as a result of we predict Heliox has a extremely good product and actually good service.
Are there too many charger corporations? I don’t know that there’s ever an excessive amount of of something. I’d say we want the best variety of charger producers that construct good merchandise and might service their merchandise. And that’s the place EO is available in on the service and upkeep aspect. However I feel consolidation is completely going to occur.
Charged: How far alongside are we with the Megawatt Charging System?
John Walsh: We’ve got a bunch of them within the floor. We provide a 1.44-megawatt charging system, and I find it irresistible as a result of it’s possibly half the scale of a van, and it suits within the nook of the depot. I can cost 40 automobiles on one charger, and I can put in a 60 kW, a 150 kW output. I can combine and match it for a buyer, which is very nice. It’s a cost-saver, it’s simpler to take care of, and it permits a buyer to essentially scale as a result of they put that within the nook of a depot, after which they will add one other one and one other one, and so they can actually get their entire fleet electrified with out chargers taking over house.
Charged: So, MCS permits you not solely to cost one car at a super-high fee, nevertheless it permits you to cut up that up. Is that one thing you’ll be able to’t do with CCS?
John Walsh: You’ll be able to, however you’re restricted—let’s say you are taking a 150 kW charger, you’ll be able to put two dispensers on it, however that’s all you are able to do. On this one MCS charger, I can put 40 dispensers, and I can cost concurrently or sequentially. It actually offers you versatility.
Charged: What about V2G? Is it nonetheless a pilot-stage expertise, or are you aware of some industrial functions?
John Walsh: We’re partnering with BorgWarner on V2G. I do know them rather well as a result of they acquired Rhombus, which was certainly one of our companions at Proterra. They do have the expertise, nevertheless it’s nonetheless very a lot in a pilot stage. The college bus market actually needs it, and so they need it at scale. I feel V2G will get pushed by the shopper. Dwelling right here in Florida, if we now have a storm and the electrical energy goes down, effectively, I’ve bought an influence station proper right here—we’ve bought 1,000 faculty buses sitting there filled with vitality. I simply need to have the aptitude to drag it off that bus and into one other car or a facility. However I nonetheless assume it’s in pilot—I can’t offer you an instance of a industrial software the place I’m seeing it at scale but.
